The Spin: Good News Is Actually Bad News: Annual Audit Shows Abuse Accusations Plummeting, But ‘Catholic’ Cranks Forage For the Negative

Francesco Cesareo : Catholic audit : Brian Roewe

Whose side are they on? National Review Board Chairman Francesco Cesareo (l)
and the National Catholic Reporter's Brian Roewe (r)

Once again, this year's newly released annual audit report by United States bishops about abuse in the Catholic Church amplifies the rampancy of false accusations, suspicious and unprovable allegations against dead priests, dubious decades-old claims, and the determination of Church-suing tort lawyers and their allies to drain what remains of the Church's coffers.

And while accusations against Catholic priests dropped 50 percent from a year ago, there are still individuals – even those who identify themselves as "Catholic" – who nonetheless continue to furrow for any way they can to put a negative spin on good news.

Just the facts, ma'am

Taken straight from the data in this year's audit report, we again provide you the simple facts about the Catholic Church abuse story that you will never, ever see in the mainstream media:

  • over 90% of all abuse accusations last year allege incidents from 1989 or earlier (28 or more years ago);
  • Almost half, or 46%, of all identified priests who were accused in 2017 were already long deceased (and conveniently no longer around to defend themselves);
  • over 93% of all identified priests who were accused in 2017 were either already deceased, already removed from ministry, already laicized, already out of ministry (e.g., retired or resigned), or simply missing; and
  • only a mere 25% of all allegations last year were even deemed "substantiated," while more than half of the accusations were deemed either "unsubstantiated," "unable to be proven," or still under review.

Bogus accusations, the untold story

There is an important and notable fact in this year's report. Of the mere 24 current minors who came forward in 2017 alleging that a current priest abused them, only 6 of those allegations were determined to be "substantiated." However, four of those six accusations were against the same priest.

In other words, there were contemporaneous accusations made against exactly three priests in a country with nearly 40,000 priests. And if that accused priest is the one whom we suspect, we think that even these so-called "substantiated" claims are actually completely bogus.

And if contemporaneous accusations are such frauds, can you imagine what the fraud percentage is of those claiming a dead priest touched them 30, 40, 50 years ago?

With friends like these …

This is the real story that needs to be told. Yet Francesco C. Cesareo, Chairman of the National Review Board, somehow saw it fit to claim there are "worrisome signs" that the Church isn't doing what it's supposed to be doing when it comes to the protection of children.

Last year, the Catholic Church doled out some $180 million in settlements and "support for victims," yet in a letter at the beginning of the report, Cesareo was apparently bent out of shape by the fact that some dioceses did not publish reporting procedures in foreign languages and that "background checks were not completed in timely manner," though Cesareo did not exactly define what he meant by "timely."

And if Cesareo believes there is an organization on the planet doing more to rectify for the crimes of its employees from decades ago, he certainly is not sharing it with anybody.

And predictably, the left-wing, Church-bashing National Catholic Reporter was more than willing to spotlight the negative in an otherwise positive report. In fact, Brian Roewe – who never met a Church basher he didn't love – made Cesareo's claims about so-called "worrisome signs" and "complacency" the central focus of his article.

Maybe the time has come to finally do away with these annual audits. Accusations against current priests are now clearly incredibly rare, and these reports provide nothing but fodder to misrepresent the truth in efforts to bash the Catholic Church.

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Important note: Some readers are unclear on what the report defines as an "unsubstantiated" allegation. Here it is, straight fron the report itself (emphasis added): "'Unsubstantiated' describes an allegation for which an investigation is complete and the allegation has been deemed not credible/false based upon the evidence gathered through the investigation" (p. 34 of the pdf / p. 23 of the report).

In other words, "unsubstantiated" claims are indeed bogus claims.

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SEE ALSO: FIVE FAST FACTS About the Catholic Church Abuse Narrative

Comments

  1. Joanne says:

    Having worked in the juvenile justice system and as an advocate for abuse / neglect victims (not with claims against the Catholic Church), unsubstantiated also means that there is not enough evidence to make a judgment of truth or falsity of the allegation. There are different legal standards of proof: preponderance of the evidence, clear and convincing, beyond a reasonable doubt. This is a burden an investigating agency or prosecutor considers when deciding to substantiate or unsubstantiate a complaint.

    • Dan says:

      Stick around long enough and you'll find that "the Church" has their own dictionary and definitions that oppose just about everything that is truth, even Biblical Truth. It's called the Catechism of the Catholic Church, along with the false teachings and corrupt definitions of their apologists, which in their opinion supersede even God's Holy Inspired Word.

    • malcolm harris says:

      Joanne, on the 6th, provides an interesting insight into the justice system. This lady almost certainly knows more about investigative work than me.  But whilst an auditor I was given good advice by a former policeman. He told me to look at everything in terms of risk factors, What he meant was that people have been weighing risk since our cavemen forebears.. The hunter had to make a decision between obtaining meat to eat, and the risk that the beast might fight back, and injure him. But today we look out for easy money, not easy meat. So what is the risk of accusing a deceased priest, of molesting me 40 years ago, Virtually none as far as I can see, So what might I gain for making up a  shocking story and sticking to it?  Well a six figure windfall, which would solve all my financial problems.. Dave Pierre wonders how many of the historical claims might have been  fraudulent?. Well….. in my considered opinion….most of them,

      Most would have been fraudulent.. because it was just too easy…easy meat.

    • Dan says:

      Malcolm, It's good that no rational minds have to even consider your poor "opinion". It is known fact that many abused or raped victims, especially those raped at young ages, would be hesitant to report the crime in what we would consider a timely fashion for several reasons. Many had respect mixed with imposed fear of their holier than thou perpetrators. Many were groomed, brainwashed or threatened not to talk or even had their family or parents threatened with death. They lived with confusion, maybe unwarranted guilt or were disbelieved originally by parents or authorities. Sometimes accused of being liars. To claim that most cases would be "fraudulent" or victims looking for easy money is an irrational poor opinion. I do agree with your analogy that the sick perverts and victim's accusers would like the beast might fight back. After all your cult does in every way resemble the whore that sits on the beast described in Revelations chapter 17 and 18. Your mentor, publiar, would be proud of your ignorant analogies and opinions.

      P.S. You also might check out the pdf of the USCCB Audit to see that 1% or less of the credible accusations were considered to be fraud. Stop the nonsense!

    • Dan says:

      Also as previously stated, dead priests does not equate to innocent priests. Surprise to catholics, that all the dead creeps of their church will receive the justice they so rightly deserve when they stand before the Almighty Judge. You might think twice before making excuses for the evil wicked perverts, no matter what their status, dead or alive.

  2. Jim Robertson says:

    "Accusations 'against' current minors are now clearly incredably rare" ????

    I should think they would be.

    Not many minors have been accused of molesting priests.

  3. Dan says:

    "'Unsubstantiated', by no means is ever defined as "bogus claims". Dead, fired or missing priests do not mean innocent priests. Priests not convicted because of SOL's does not mean they were innocent. We should rename TMR, The Catholic Bogus Propaganda Report.

    FACTS; 1) "654 victims/survivors reported 695 allegations of abuse against clergy." I'm glad to hear that catholics think this denotes some form of improvement. Have catholics ever questioned how bad the other years must have been? 2) "90% of all abuse accusations last year allege incidents from 1989 or earlier (28 or more years ago)." And again, old accusations do not mean innocence or "bogus". 3) "Among allegations received, most victims/survivors of abuse were 10-14 years old, 82% of victims/survivors were male …" Once again confirming that "the Church" is plagued and has long been plagued with homosexual sick pedophile and pederast priests. Please stop with the excuses, denials, minimizing and manipulation of facts. Conclusion: Guilty beyond a reasonable doubt.

    "Pope Francis became the first pope to publically denounce a 'culture of abuse and cover-up in the Catholic Church.' " And folks, there we have it, right from the horses mouth.

    • Dan says:

      ADD. I noticed your quote that "accusations against Catholic priests 'dropped 50 percent' from a year ago". No mention that "Table 1. New Credible Allegations" for 2016 were more than double the two previous years.    

      Allegations per year  2014-294   2015-321   2016-730   2017-373   Notice that allegations in 2017 were more than those in 2014 or 2015. Let's give all the facts, rather than only those that benefit what seems to denote an improvement. All these figures are way too high coming from a church claiming to be Holy, Pure or the One True Church. Totally reprehensible and despicable.

       

  4. Jim Robertson says:

    I catch all the flaws in the church, Dave, It's my avocation. :^)

  5. Mary says:

    In other words, victims are more scared than ever to report clergy sex crimes.

  6. Jim Robertson says:

    Mary, maybe some feel coming forward is useless, but some might not come forward simply because they don't want to. Too painful. How do you unscare people? And really Mary where's some evidence for your "scared" theses?  I never met one victim who as adults and since 2001 has ever said they were afraid to come forward now. (But then for those who were really afraid it wouldn't have been possible for me to meet them would it? ) Mary, where did you meet these frightened people? Mary how did/do you get in contact with these frightened victims?

     

  7. Jim Robertson says:

    And just to jack with TMR's theses.

    Where's the "stampede" of false claiments?

    Financially, times are harder than ever. Where are the thieves with their fiendish plots? (All down in Chile where 4 archbishops resigned?)

    If false claims were majorly a factor, claims should be up (Due to hard times) not down or at least close to the same level they had been.

    By painting the church "cleaner" with this article you have in fact just blown a hole in the stampede theory.

  8. Jim Robertson says:

    Dan seems to have really taken on the victim's cause. So many accurate corrections numbers wise. He is fulfilling his roll to connect victims to church haters. A hatred he refuses to hide for the sake of civil discourse. Granted he was terribly inflamed by P's personal attacks. Nothing like being lied about to set one's teeth on edge. But still how quickly and well he's taken on the victims' case. While never forgetting to mock the faith. Yes, Dan, Catholics see themselves as members of the one true "pure"??? (I don't think they ever claimed pure) church. So what? Could you please not conjoin victims' issues with your antiCatholic beliefs? If you could possibly do that. I might not think you are a plant. But as of right now you've taken reasonable analysis of the report and hooked it up to your usual slap across the faith. You have no right to continue to link those two separate issues together.

    (It's a bit like an old fashioned Apache (French) dance. You move gracefully with the woman across the dance floor, it's a tango. and then you beat the crap out of her. )

    • Dan says:

      I can't seem to understand why you feel such a need to attack me Jim? I am backing the victims cause more than you could ever dream to do. What the F is your problem? This is one screwed up, idololatrous, sexually immoral, wicked cult, that just about every so-called Christian religion has spun off of. Even the more obvious cults, David Koresh, Jim Jones and the Mormons have picked up their (catholic) sexually immoral ways and even seemed to learn how to deny and keep things secret, until the roof caves in. Are you offended because I've called them out for their homosexual pedophilia and pederasty? Do you not understand that I categorize these evil acts as very different than those of consenting homosexual adults? If you think you'll continue attacking me for my work against this wicked cult, than I must say that I'm going to consider you the "plant" here, so step aside, because my work in the name of Jesus Christ will not be thwarted by any evil until the job is finished. As I've told you before, you might want to give some real good thought as to who your real enemy is, because you are one truly confused and mixed-up person. Stop blaming me for your misconceptions.

    • Dan says:

      Apparently you seem to only be interested in getting money out of the church. I'm fighting to see the end of child molestation. I have a very unselfish reason for my cause, because I have nothing to gain besides having you and "the Cult's" excusers attack me from all sides. Like I've said before, it's quite ironic that you think you can curse and criticise God, Jesus, His Holy Spirit, His followers and His Word, and yet have a problem with my criticising a cult and occult bunch of creeps. You never cease to amaze me with your flip-flopping mind. And sorry, I don't believe in beating the crap out of anyone. I have no problem calling a spade a spade, especially when it's the truth!

    • Dan says:

      Jim, Idolatry and false beliefs are absolutely connected to sexual immorality. They are not two "separate issues", just because you think so. For some reason you think the word of Jim supersedes the Word of God. God explains in fine detail in Romans 1:18-28, how those who idolize the creation instead of the Creator, are led down a pathway to homosexuality and all kinds of evil, wickedness and greed. Just because you refuse to believe God's Word, doesn't in itself make it null and void. Every cult that goes down the wrong path is involved in some way or another with idolatry, many times the idolization of their leader or leaders. If you deny that the catholic church has well taken this path and led themselves into disgusting shameful acts against humanitie's most vunerable children, then there is nothing I can say to convince you otherwise. You as a victim of their crimes should be the last to defend their nastiness and evil. You were violated by one Marianist, while I was lied, slandered or falsely incarcerated by hundreds of catholics and clergy, not just publiar. This alone would give me the "right" to "continue" to expose their wickedness. Add to this the despicable crimes of their hierarchy and all the denials and hypocrisy of "the Cult", and you as a victim should be pleased with the unselfish work I've done. Instead you find it easier to attack me. Go figure? My fight is not because of what they did to me, but what they've done to thousands of innocent children and their deceived flock, while claiming to be Godly. They represent the filth of the earth and have besmirched the name of the one true God and those who believe and follow Him. I don't understand your blindness.

  9. Jim Robertson says:

    See I told you so. Now I'm blind. Must be the mascarea stuck in my crows feet. Maybe Jesus will spit on my eyes and open them to your belief system.. It was one of his party pieces.

    I'll tell you something about God's word. I've only heard it from human beings.

    Old Goddy boy, personally is as silent as the grave. The Bible was written by human beings and we humans  sometimes get things very wrong.

    "It seems I'm only trying to get money out of the church"? Oh yes I am for the people they harmed and not helped. The people you are supposed to be defending. Compensation isn't important? But your version of eternal life is so important to you that you must/ are driven to share it with us.. I'm telling you you do no good here.  And you prove my point with your posts. I haven't attacked you I've questioned your behavior. And you keep repeating in your posts exactly what I'm complaining about. Some where in every post you tell the truth about the abuse and then you slam the faith. You do it everytime.

    And so nice of Jesus to hand you a mission. Was it a collect call? How did you find this place? why are you loitering here when nobody wants your faith?

    Those who believe have their faith and we who don't, don't.

    Pub smears everyone who isn't up his ass.

    You smear the faith. And then defend victims. and that helps victims how exactly? You just want to run your ego. only you doll yours up in God myth. You've got super hero friends defending you. You are hoisted on your own petard. You are waiting for Godot and Godot never shows up, Grow the fuck up. 

    You work for God? Groovey. Does he give you vacations? If so take one.

    • Dan says:

      How does a catholic gay atheist who lacks faith and has no clue as to what it is to have faith, think that he owns the final word on defending faith, let alone think he's right in defending false faiths?

      You state, "I haven't attacked you I've questioned your behavior." Now you're beginning to deny what you do, like the publiar. Maybe you're more catholic than you think. And you're under the impression that you demonstrate some form of decent "behavior". You are more blind than I thought. You're sounding more catholic by the minute. I suppose you think all your sarcasm towards God and Christ is some form of innocent comedy. You may think that they're some kind of joke, but those shots are offensive to my faith, the one true faith.

      If you think that exposing the idolatrous false faiths in this world does something for my ego, and isn't for the saving of lost souls, then you're the one living in "myth". For you to suggest I try Buddhism, another false religion of idol worship, is absolutely ludicrous. You're under the impression that they've found any truth, just because you think they're accepting of homosexuality, possibly because they are practitioners. Yeh, and I'm not done.

       

       

  10. Jim Robertson says:

    You actually say hundreds of Catholics are against you? Do they have lodge meetings?  Can anybody join? How do you get hundreds of Catholics mad at you? Why bother? Take their no as their final answer. and leave them alone. No means no. For every action there's an equal and opposite re-action. You need to study a little Buddhism. He at least was real. Does your God let you look at other people's points of view and does he allow you to empathize with them. Is there any faith you won't attack?  And why are you proselytising your faith? Share the "good news" with those who want to hear it.

     

    • Dan says:

      You don't get it that the problems I had with catholics were to expose them as the liars and slanderers, threatening violence and at times carrying out that violence towards me. How do you think God could expose their wickedness without having someone to bear the brunt of their attacks? It fulfilled Matthew 5:11 – "Blessed are you when others revile you and persecute you and utter all kinds of evil against you falsely on my account." And again in Matthew 24:9 – "Then you will be ARRESTED and HANDED OVER to be PUNISHED and be put to death. EVERYONE WILL HATE YOU BECAUSE OF ME." Any of this sound familiar to you in regards to my testimony.

      Now they can all be happy that you've joined with your catholic cohorts in slandering, attacking and hating me. Thank You! God's Prophetic Word fulfilled. Lately it seems the only difference between you and them is that you want their dirty money, while they work hard at keeping it from any of their victims if possible. Like I've said, "You should have learned by now who is really your friend and who is really your enemies." Some people will never learn.      servant of the Lord

      P.S. My faith in my God and Savior is as deep as where bone meets marrow, in a secret place where no accusing hypocrites will ever have the right to question or understand. Tread lightly or pay the consequences, Jim.

  11. Jim Robertson says:

    "The filth of the earth" words that would never pass Jesus lips.

    No one is beyond redemption in your faith and one man's filth is another man's glory.

    You forget we are just jumped up monkies. That's who we are.

    All your Bible nonsense is a mere facade. An applied persona. thin as veeneer I don't know how old you are  and you might haver already done it but I recommend mescaline and LSD. In a safe environment in nature out doors.  You're stuck on the surface you need to expand your mind. You need to recognize that we are all one with the universe and each other. That you are it and it is you and God could care less cuz you are him and he is you.

    • Dan says:

      Once again, an atheist who blasphemes God and Christ, thinks he's all knowledgeable in knowing what "would never pass Jesus lips". Grown, so-called religious men raping and molesting young boys and sometimes baby girls, I'm sorry but I refuse to retract my statement that they are "The filth of the earth". Those who accept God's Word as truth, know that this is quite possibly sin beyond redemption. For it is written that there is sin so disgusting we are asked not to even pray for that sin or those sinners. Maybe before you claim to know the Word and what Jesus would say, you might want to read it and you may actually learn what true faith is.

      How ironic that I Googled your nasty statement, "one man's filth is another man's glory", and lo and behold the first website quotes Romans 1:27. "Men did shameful things with other men, and as a result of this sin, they suffered within themselves the penalty they deserved." And you still think God has no power to call you out? Rest assured that "one man's filth is another man's glory" will never equate to the Holy and Pure God's glory or Christ's for that matter. You may be a jumped up monkey, but atheist or not, you still will answer to the Almighty God.

      Jim's solution, take some "mescaline and LSD" and maybe you can live with your guilty conscience. It sure does answer to the value of your material, but will in no way help you when standing before the All-Knowing God. God does care and you are most definitely not Him and He is most definitely not anything like you. My "Bible nonsense is a mere facade", then your atheist wisdom is nothing but fake news. How about you take your monkey sodomizing self and fly to another "universe".

    • malcolm harris says:

      JR on the 13th…. tells Dan that he might be deluding himself…. about God, and morality. Virtually saying that God is no more that a human invention. But self-delusion is mostly in evidence when we choose to ignore reality. For example…. that many more 'victims' are still out there, but afraid to come forward? Really?. The reality we are forgetting is that there is no rational reason for not coming forward?.  Personally I would have quickly told parents as it would have been a great excuse to bale out….. of being an altar boy. If for some reason I didn't, then the subsequent chance of a big cash compensation, would have caused me to rush forward with my claim. Like winning the lottery….no risk. The suggestion that there may be some who are too scared, to come forward, is simply ignoring our human nature. Get real folks, otherwise you are just deluding yourselves.

       

  12. Jim Robertson says:

    I read somewhere recently. "God is a verb not a noun." I thought that was pretty good.

    • Dan says:

      What will make you happy Jim? If God is anything but God? Yes, He is omnipotent and capable of unlimited power and able to accomplish anything He desires. He is the ultimate being, a noun, a verb of action and behind everything that is good and true. No problem with any of that.

  13. Jim Robertson says:

    Mary here are my credentials:

    6 solid years of at least weekly new confrences designed in part to bring victims forward. I was there at every SNAP news confrence in Los Angeles and was even in SNAP demo's in St. Louis. 

    I was at SNAP meetings from the earl '90's a few in Worchester Mass. Most in L.A. But then if you were the Mary you are pretending to be, you would know that.

    I went to jail for my beliefs and did 300 hours of community service for my crime of standing silent as I was self handcuffed to a Cardinal's throne.

    Mary what have you done for victims?

    And again I ask you simply where can I meet your frightened friends?

     

     

    • Dan says:

      Jim, I'm puzzled? How does one claim they "went to jail for [their] beliefs", while touting themselves as an unbeliever? You "did 300 hours of community service for [your] 'crime' of standing silent as you were self handcuffed to a Cardinal's throne". You're bitchin' like a cry baby about breaking the law, when you say you did it to yourself. How 'bout you take your own advice as your telling me, "Why bother? Take their no as their final answer and leave them alone. No means no. For every action there's an equal and opposite reaction." Don't you just love people who don't practice what they preach! I was falsely accused by lying catholic priests, nuns and cops, and you think you have the right to counsel me? You broke the law and got what you deserved, so don't cry about it. Since you were going to jail anyway maybe it would have been better if you had something to say instead of 'standing silent'. Oh! That's right! You only think freedom of speech applies to you. Did you ever think about listening to someone elses "point of view", especially one who has the wisdom of the Lord? Don't you just hate people who don't practice what they preach? Oh yeah! That's right! You don't think anyone has the right to question or expose hypocrites. Is that maybe because you are one?

  14. Jim Robertson says:

    Malcolm I never said victims are too scared to come forward. Mary did.

    Glad you would have told your parents when it was happening. I'm glad you had that kind of reklationship with your parents. I did not.

    I at 16 was too traumatized to tell my parents who could never even tell me the facts of life. They were also old and ill.

    I was a true believer in my religion and I was in shock. i only wound up telling the priest at my school because my friend forced me to by telling the dean of students himself. I wanted no one to know. I just wanted the abuse to stop and I didn't know how to make that happen. I obeyed my teachers and my priests and religious. I had no idea what to do.

    • malcolm harris says:

      JR on the 15th reminds us that at 16 years of age he was molested by a teaching brother at his Catholic school. He said that he was too traumatized to tell his aged parents, who were unwell, and that they hadn't even told him the facts of life.   Well … the older I get the more it becomes clear how some people can convince by including things that actually ring true… amongst all all the questionable stuff. What rings true is that he wasn't told about sex by his parents….but who was?. i had to send away for a book called "The Stork Didn't Bring You". And my younger brothers got their facts from that same book. However what is questionable is that at 16 years he couldn't fight his own battles?. I was working full time at that age and considered myself a man (at least in my own estimation). Even if it hadn't come to blows, I would have told everybody…. his name would soon have been mud throughout the school.

  15. Jim Robertson says:

    Dan you sound like P more and more every day.

    I'm the problem? The Catholic faith is the problem? No we aren't. It's the heirarchy that transferred and enabled criminals to harm more Catholic children and others that are the problem. That and the church's attempts to make sure its victims get no or the least amount of compensation possible.

     Sorry you don't know we are apes. Ask God to tell you why he evolved us if you don't like that fact .

    Mescaline and LSD don't cover up guilt. They are not something you do to numb out. they are something one does to open up not close down.

    Jesus never called any human being the filth of the earth. He did say that those who harm children" it would be better a millstone were hug round their necks and they be thrown into the sea." He never mentioned what should be done to those who cover up for these people and transfer such rapists that they might rape again.

    And yes Malcolm, God is no more than a human invention. Sad but true. But I'm not stopping you from believing what you want to believe. I couldn't if I tried.  Dan however thinks he can. And I loved being an altar boy mostly. I believed in God. I believed in the church. i felt it was an honor to be one truly I did. (though I loathed be a half a block from the church and would get calls to come over in fill in for the no shows at the last minute. That was a pain) I had an elderly woman tell me she loved when I served mass because she could see the faith in my eyes and actions. I believed.

    And Dan do you actually think the Lord God of the universe, the creator of all, The "all powerful Wizard", gives a shit about blasphemy? Lol! That's all he's got to worry about? If he skipped Auschwitz and the Middle Passage and the abuse of his own Catholic and other religions' children what makes you think he cares about blasphemy?  What's he gonna do make me burn for ever? I'm shaking in my boots….. with laughter. Go ahead loverboy burn me.  Tsk tsk! What a pile of shit you believe in.

     

    • Dan says:

      No Jim. This post is written proof that you are the problem. You criticise my exposing the catholic faiths false teachings and yet have the nerve to blaspheme and tear into the One who gave you life. You blame Him for all the evil in the world, when He has no part in the world's evil or it's evil creeps. You are one confused monkey, but even a monkey, if they were able to talk, wouldn't be so evil and nasty to the One who created him. You may be proof that monkeys evolved from you.   servant of the One True God

    • Dan says:

      And Jim, I'm against a faith that is false and has deceived many, apparently even you. You're against and say horrible things towards the One True God. Why do you think you're the one who is in the right?

  16. Jim Robertson says:

    Dan if God is everywhere then that means he is in you and me and even in my abusers and in P.  So if you are the residence for your part of God's prescence. Then you in fact are God as am I as is everything and everyone. if he's everywhere he permeates everywhere he is.

    We may not have his power but in one major part we do.  How?  We invented him and then had him claim he invented us.  And that's the Bible to me.

  17. Mary says:

    Listening is a gift that some appreciate.

  18. Jim Robertson says:

    Ok we're in cloud cukooland.

    Dan must be P's Summer replacement at TMR.

    A street preacher has shown up to end all sanity here. Not that there was much to start with but one religious loon really puts the cherry on top for me.  Later gaters.

    • Dan says:

      Thank You for your appreciation.

    • Dan says:

      Yeah Jim! They're paying me millions to criticise their false religion in order that they give their money to me, so they don't have any left to pay their victims. Now doesn't that explain everything for you Jim. I also work undercover for SNAP and am a secret agent from North Korea, second only to Kim Jung Un. Welcome all readers to the new reality show called Jim's World*, produced by our favorite whackjob, lying publiar. The first episode we'll be adding Dan's star to the wall of catholic saints and heros. Welcome to Cuckooland!     

      *sponsored by publiar's Cartoon Time Looney Tunes and Fairy Tales

  19. Jim Robertson says:

    Me thinks the preacher doth protest to much.

     

  20. Jim Robertson says:

    Dan because you literally have zero proof there is a "God". Let alone your particular version of one (3).

    • Dan says:

      And you "literally have zero proof" there isn't a "God". "Let alone your particular version". And besides, I have given you proof several times and you refuse to accept my proof.

  21. Jim Robertson says:

    See "the Catholic faith's false teachings" who cares besides you and other preachers of your version of teaching.

    I can mock who I want. where i want. and when I want. it's all made up. All religion is made up by human beings. Otherwise explain why the word necessary for salvation didn't reach some on the planet for nearly 2000 years. You aren't logical Dan and you still never told me how you come to be here. Did someone other than the lord guide you here and if so who are they and why did they do it?

    • Dan says:

      Jim, I had told you before how I came to join the fray here. Publiar I felt was wrongly atacking people and what they had to say, you being one of those commenters, and I felt compelled to join in. I somewhat remember you saying something in the order, with possible expletives against myself or my beliefs, that you don't need me defending you or any victims. And to say I'm not "logical" is crazy, just because I don't share your beliefs or should I say lack of beliefs. I also firmly disagree that you "can mock who [you] want". There wil most definitely be consequences to pay whether you believe so or not.

  22. Jim Robertson says:

    Dan where did you get the impression i hate you? I just don't believe what you believe. Again i ask a simple question how did you come here to TMR? And I never said you weren't telling the truth about what happened to you. You don't take responsibility for your part in that confrontation with school officials, maybe, but I don't hate you for that. I'm not here to cause you personal pain.

  23. Dan says:

    Nor do I hate you. Please understand Jim that I did nothing against the church until I was threatened, cursed, lied about and first time beaten by four thugs. Then was incarcerated 6 times and sent to mental hospitals 6 times, not based on true accusations but outright lies. Those lies were anything from my wanting to kill them to accusing me of being a pervert. ALL LIES.That was when I made the sign of protest and as I learned more about their crimes and horrible sins against innocent victims, coupled with the insistent lies and attacks of publiar, well needless to say I had had enough. The more I learn about their disgusting hierarchy and their worldwide crime syndicate and cover-up against young boys, the more sickened I get with their false religion. It is not a faith I will ever respect because there is nothing Godly about them. I'm sorry that with all my explanations you have yet to understand how false faiths lead to terrible teachings, which in turn produces horrible fruit that commit all kinds of disgusting and sometimes unforgivable sins. I just don't think there is anything I can say to convince you. You can't say I haven't tried. You being an atheist gives you no right to attack God, Jesus Christ, His Word or anyones true beliefs. Sorry, but your disbelief is absolutely wrong and there will come a time when you will realize that. That may not be until you bow a knee before Him. I hope not.

  24. Jim Robertson says:

    I'd be more inclined to bow an arrow towards him but that's just me.

    God must need a little sitz sometime, being worshiped all the time by himself and others must get tired.

    And if he' everywhere he's in Hell too and the screams of the damned must get tortureous even to the torturer, the guy who lets their pain continue eternally. What's he thinking with that? Maybe he just tunes it out.  Maybe he asks Sinatra to sing. '50's Sinatra. Oh to live on sugar mountain.

    • Dan says:

      After all, when they had the chance to choose, they rejected me and refused to obey my laws and commands. They abused those who were faithful to me and even said I wasn't real, knowing they would someday die. That's why the rewards I have described will be given to you, while the wicked will receive nothing but thirst and torture. I, the Most High God, do not like to see people die without hope. But it's their fault for disgracing me even though I created them and offered them a good life. The time of their judgment is coming soon. 2 Esdras 8:56-61

      God replied: I will celebrate over the few people who will be saved, because they are the ones who have faithfully worshiped me and told others about me. I won't be sad about crowds of people who will die. They are like fog, and they disappear as quickly as smoke or a flame that blazes up, and then goes out. 2 Esdras 7:60-61

      Sounds pretty much like what's going on today, but this was written some 2,000 years ago. I don't believe from what I read in the Bible that God is going to give much thought at all to the wicked or their punishment, and surely doesn't get joy from seeing them punished. Hell is the total absence of God. I think he and the saved will more likely be rockin' to some love songs.

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